Bob Martin: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Imagine America Radio. My name is Bob Martin; I’m the president and CEO for the Imagine America Foundation. Joining me today is my Foundation colleague, Lee Doubleday. This is the fourth and final series in our transportation awareness career month. On this episode, we’re going to focus specifically on aircraft technician careers. Joining us today is Jeremy Cooper and Nick Brown. Jeremy is the regional vice president of admissions at the Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology, and Nick Brown is the campus president of Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology in Broomfield, Colorado—which is, for all that you that are sitting—it’s near Denver. It makes it easier for me, guys, if I say it’s near Denver, okay?

Nick Brown: Yep, that’s correct.

Bob Martin: Today, we want to discuss aircraft technician careers. As a leading provider of education, aviation maintenance—and one of the leading providers of technicians working in the field—we couldn’t think of anyone better to talk to than Jeremy and Nick with Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology. Let’s start off first by talking to our listeners about exactly what an aircraft technician is. Can you briefly explain what they do on a daily basis, so our audience gets a sense of it?

Nick: Absolutely. So, an aircraft technician is certified under the FAA’s airframe and power plant license with the regulation part 147. Generally, what a day would look like and what they do is—there’s a number of different shifts that they can go into, such as your standard day shifts, swing shift, and overnights. So, looking at it through a lens of somebody that works for a major airline, you’re going to work through any issues that may come up during flight or while the aircraft is at the ramp at your local airport. And then, figure out a solution from a maintenance standpoint on correcting that issue based on FAA requirements and also the manuals for the aircraft manufacturers. You get that aircraft back into service. If you’re now working within the hangar environment and doing some more heavy maintenance on the aircraft, that can involve anything from the airframe side, which is structures of the aircraft, working through the electrical systems, any of the sheet metal that—or aluminum that is the skin of the aircraft, and going to the newer aircrafts such as the Boeing 787. Composites and the materials that are in that side of it, changing tires, working on the brake systems, fluid lines, fittings. Everything, essentially, that keeps that aircraft airborne and airworthy. So, it’s a very rewarding career for somebody who doesn’t want to be in a traditional office environment. There’s a lot of things that change, so if you’re an individual that likes to adapt and troubleshoot, this career field is really something that would be an eye-opener and probably a good experience in a positive way for somebody looking to get into a career that’s not your standard 9-to-5 in an office building.

Lee: All right, awesome, well, now that we have a better understanding of what an aircraft technician does, let’s talk a little bit about the career outlook. What does the career outlook look like for aircraft technicians? Maybe on a national level?

Jeremy Cooper: Yeah, absolutely. I’ll go ahead and take that, Lee. So, you know, according to BLS data, most recently it states that by 2029, it’s actually estimated there’s going to be a need to hire over 192,000 aircraft technicians across the country. So, when you ask that question—overall employment of aircraft, and avionics equipment, and mechanics, and technicians—it’s projected, really, to grow by 5% from 2019 to 2029. So, faster than your average or all occupations, really, you know? Job opportunities are expected to be good, because, well, there’ll be a need to replace those current workers that are getting ready to leave this occupation. COVID only accelerated that, as we saw through this past 18 to 19 months with the pandemic. So, plenty of opportunity, Lee, for anyone looking to make a transition in their career right now.

Lee: Yeah, that’s great. With aviation being in such high demand, it definitely seems like something worth getting an education in. So, I have sort of a three-parted question for you. Number one, should someone go to school to learn how to become an aircraft technician? I’m guessing there are other alternatives to a formal education that you could take. So why is a formal education the way that a student maybe should go? Number two, what does a typical program include? And number three, how long is a typical aviation maintenance program?

Jeremy: Yeah. Well, thanks, Lee. I might. I might need to repeat some of those questions, but let me back up. I’ll try to get to the first one. And I think it—correct me if I’m wrong, Lee, but the question stated around why should someone go the traditional route compared to our route, right? I think Nick and I talk about it all the time, right? This is not a program or a fit for everybody or a career for everybody, right? I mean, there’s a lot of responsibility. It is a hands-on type of job. But just by saying that alone, this job is an amazing career and an amazing opportunity for somebody, this training that we provide. I would say anybody that is looking for an opportunity that wants to have the ability to really be in an innovative industry such as aviation, and also possibly even aerospace, that wants to be on the cutting edge of technology, practical use of that knowledge and that technology, and put it in the day-to-day operations. This could be an amazing opportunity and an amazing training program for that individual. Someone that—I like to coin the phrase—that doesn’t want to sit behind a desk but really wants to be able to build the desk. And then your second question, Lee, go ahead and just—if you could repeat that.

Lee: Yeah, I wanted to know what a typical program included and how long the typical program is.

Jeremy: Yeah. So, our aviation maintenance program here at the Broomfield campus is 20 months long, and that includes all the training that you’ll need to be able to test and sit for your FAA part 147 AMP certificate. So, let’s just cover what that looks like, right? You’re going to have three parts to that test: It’s going to be your writtens, your practicals, and your orals. Once you’ve accomplished that and you’ve achieved that and passed that for the FAA testing, then you will receive your AMP certificate. So that’s what the training entails. And now, that program can be done two different times. We have a day program, and we have a night program for students. We do understand that maybe you need a part-time job, full-time job, or whatever it may be. We offer a flexible schedule so that we can—you can still accommodate whatever you may have going on in your life. And then I think the last question, what does a typical program include, how long does it take? Obviously, [crosstalk].

Nick: I would just say one of the things, going back to your first question Lee, is why would you come to a school to get the training? We’ve been doing this for over 90 years and recognized by the FAA for how well we do it. We track our pass rates with the FAA norms, [inaudible], which are posted on the FAA’s website showing the success of what we do and getting students certified and out into the industry. So having a formal education program that’s laid out for student success that has a number of years of tenure under its belt, to show that we lead students to the appropriate training to get certified, and ultimately into the career field of their choice within aviation or aerospace—to Jeremy’s point. I think that’s something that should be heavily considered. You can go the route of possibly doing some bypass exams with the FAA if you have prior military experience or doing some internship/apprenticeship work under a seasoned FAA that’s been in the industry for a while and go that route. But it’s generally a slower path not as quick to get you out in the industry where you can actually start working and earning a living wage. So, to answer that question, hopefully, that provides a little bit of clarity on why I would say go to a school where it’s essentially been vetted and tried and true, in regards to getting individuals trained and ready for industry.

Lee: Yeah, and I think you kind of touched on this, but individuals that are coming to your school are going to get a more formal education as opposed to—look, these are high tech—this is high-tech equipment, right? You kind of need a formal education. Otherwise, you’re not going to pass the certification. You’re not going to be employable. And the other thing is, and I’m going to ask this question—and this is sort of jumping the gun to my next question, is more along the lines of—I know you have relationships with employers. And they’re going to be working on the machines that are out there in the field while they’re at school, which is a very important part. But let’s just get to the next question here, which is, let’s say I’m someone who’s interested in the aviation maintenance program. When I tour a campus offering this program, what are a few things that I should be looking for? Because, as I just mentioned earlier, this program seems like it’s going to have to require some up-to-date equipment in order to stay relevant with current work environments. Would the equipment that the school uses be something I should consider? And what else should I consider—accreditation, maybe length of program, and then—possibly most importantly—relationships with employers? Can you kind of run through a checklist for me? Pretend I’m a student looking at a school. What should I be looking for?

Jeremy: Yeah. That’s a phenomenal question, Lee. And I think that’s one that we want all of our students to know, right? When you’re looking at a potential school, I look at two things, right? It’s an investment of your time. And it’s an investment of your money. And our mission, here at Spartan, is to make sure that you maximize that return on both of those aspects, right—your time and your money—so that you are able to go out and be competitive in the job field. So, if I was a potential student and coming in or you’re a potential student, I would say one—absolutely first—make sure it’s an FAA-approved part 147 institution, right? Because without that—and it kind of backs up to your question, Lee, is should I look at accreditation? Absolutely. But it’s not just the accrediting body. It’s also is it an approved FAA program, right? You’re not allowed to be an aircraft technician or even work or maintain an aircraft without that A&P certificate. So, if an institution has that or doesn’t have that, that’s a big deal-breaker. And I think it’s something that all students should be aware of when they’re visiting these institutions and sites across the country. And then the other one is you’re absolutely right—length of program, right? The industry—and I’m going to go back up to our previous conversation earlier about the demand, the demand is here. The demand is now. We said 192,000 jobs, Lee. That opportunity’s now. And if I’m a potential student—you’re a potential student, you’re probably going to want to maximize on that as soon as possible. Your traditional bachelor’s degree may take you four or five years. Whereas, here at our Broomfield campus, Nick, we have it in 20 months long if a student stays on track and is able to graduate and pass all their classes, right? So, within 20 months, you have an amazing opportunity to potentially be in the industry. And then the last one, I think you hit the nail on the head, is that relationship with employers. I think that speaks volumes to the value of the education that the institute is putting out. Look, we’re working with organizations such as United. They’re partners. We’re working with SkyWest. Many different airlines that are in this industry we have partnerships with that are constantly looking at and interviewing our students. And we hold that to the highest value that we want to make sure we’re supplying those industries with the best-talented individuals out there and that they have a trusted respect with us I think, Nick, right, that we’re giving the highest quality of education and training to our students. And we stand behind that. And I think that goes back to the whole conversation, right, is what is the return on my initial investment of both my time and my money? Am I getting the best level of education that I possibly can in the industry? What’s it going to do for me and serve me when I get in the industry? And how long is this going to take me? I think we’re starting to see a transition of that in the education and the higher ed and workforce as we go, as people are wanting to put these skills that they learn to practical use as soon as possible.

Bob: Real quickly, let me just summarize what I think—I know—I heard you say, which was important. And I’m stepping back I’m a parent, I’m a significant other. I’m going and I’m looking at your school and I’m trying to advise this person—maybe my child, maybe my spouse, maybe whatever—about going. And so, what I’m hearing you say is that Spartan offers flexible scheduling. In other words, you’ve got that flexible scheduling. You’ve got accreditation but besides accreditation, more importantly, you’ve got FAA certification, which, I mean, accreditation is good. But if you don’t get certified, you don’t get the job and you don’t make the money, right? I mean, you can’t get out there and make the money, right? Then I also heard you say you’re working on state-of-the-art equipment, which is absolutely critical. I mean, I’m guessing employers come in, they walk around your place. They say, “Hey, we need more of this. We need less of this. You need to get this particular piece of equipment because we’re moving in that direction.” Then I also hear length of term, return on investment, which is how much skin do I got to put in and when am I going to start getting that return back? And I’m hearing 20 months, approximately 20-month program. Would that be fair? Would those be fair summary points? Am I missing anything, guys, before I go on?

Nick: No, Bob, I think you’ve pretty much got it right where it needs to be. One of the things I would say, though, with part 147—we cover all areas of aviation with that training. So anybody that wants to go work in general aviation all the way up to the big boys at the major airlines. State-of-the-art equipment, you do mention that. We do have some items here that are in line with where trends are currently within aviation, but there’s some stuff that our aviation partners and aircraft manufacturers that are making right now that we can’t get our hands on. And what I always refer back to is, an ANP certificate is essentially a certificate to learn. We give them the entry-level skillset under the FAA’s part 147 to be a productive employee and to receive the appropriate training at these respective employers on their equipment and processes to ensure that they are going to be a benefit to that organization when they get there. So, I can’t always make that promise that we’re going to have the most cutting-edge stuff, because lot of that stuff is quite expensive [laughter].

Bob: Yeah, I can imagine.

Nick: And also, as well, new to industry and still going through some of the things that the FAA has in place to vet that to make sure it’s safe for passengers to travel on. But we do have equipment that will cover all aspects of aviation to ensure that that technician’s got the ability to go into different areas of aviation, such as general aviation, commercial aviation, and also the major air carriers that we all jump on at the local airport to go to our favorite vacation spots or do business travel.

Bob: It’s a pretty heavy responsibility these guys are taking on. As someone who’s traveled a lot, more than once I’ve been sitting there and they say, “Hey, we’re not taking off until the mechanic signs off on something.” That’s a pretty heady responsibility. You’ve got a person that takes on a lot of—he’s got to be willing to constantly—he or she—constantly be learning, constantly know that he’s got to—he or she’s got to get some additional training. And then listening to employers. I mean, what are they saying we want to get from you, right?

Nick: You’re absolutely right. But I also don’t want to put a fear factor into individuals that may be considering this as a career option. You’re never alone in this world. There are a number of redundancies there to ensure safety and make sure that when we get on a plane as civilian passengers, we don’t have to think twice about, “Is something going to fail when I’m in this flight?” That’s the reassuring piece for anybody that’s considering this. You’re never on your own. If you go work at a major airline, you’re not going to be able to sign off on anything on your own for at least the first six months or until you get appropriately trained. So that’s one of the things that I want to put out there for the audience that’s listening currently is that you will be supported. There will be a number of different things that are put into place to keep everybody safe and ensure that they’re meeting the requirements of the FAA.

Jeremy: And I’m going to piggyback off that a little bit, Bob. I’m going to go back to the education aspect of it, to Nick’s point, is you’re absolutely right. It’s a certificate to learn. And let’s talk about the instructors for a second, right? These are industry-experienced instructors that we have on our faculty that are teaching our students, right? They’ve been in the industry, right? They’ve seen all of this. So, I think that adds added advantage where they can share stories, experiences and really help our students understand that and then just prepare them for even more of what those life experiences are going to come along their way when they get in the industry with whatever route they decide to go: general, majors, or whatnot. So absolutely.

Bob: Yeah, it’s a nice segue into this next one. And before we go, I wanted to make sure we talk about the personality traits that you think—can you give us the three or four what you think are the most important personality traits of someone looking at this career? What should they come to you with, or what do you want to see that they’re willing to broaden and become better at, so to speak?

Nick: Absolutely. I know Jeremy is going to probably have a few to throw in as well. I would say right now, our industry—and you can look this up on the FAA website—is pretty much 95% male. And a lot of our industry partners and employers are really trying to create more diversity and get females within this field. And females do very well. And a lot of employers are finding a lot of success with the females getting into industry. United Airlines, for example, which is one of our employer partners, has got a team of females under the title of Chix Fix. And they do very well at the MRO competitions with their male counterparts in other airline operators, cargo carriers, etc., and usually coming in within the top three of the competition, which is encouraging to see. And I think the major thing out there right now is a lot of people look at this as it’s an aircraft technician. What do we all think about when we go to a technician, right? Oil on your clothes, real dirty—it can be stressful, those types of things. This job, you work in very clean environments. Everything’s got to be accounted for based on FAA requirements. Every tool has got its place. There’s multiple redundancies to ensure safety when you’re doing the work on the technician side to make sure that that aircraft is airworthy. And it is a fun environment. You’re not behind a desk. You can be outside. And if you like cold weather and certain parts of the country or world, for that matter, or in very nice climates, it’s really your choice once you gain experience and get that leverage to be able to go where you want. Traits, I would say, personality-wise, showing up: Just being on time is the biggest thing that our employers stress. Can I count on you to show up every day? Because if that airline doesn’t have the technicians work—or that airplane doesn’t have the technicians working on it, that airline isn’t making revenue. And that’s a big thing for them is they’ve got to make sure that those aircraft are airworthy and ready to go to take passengers to actually start turning the profit that they need to see so they can pay their employees and also invest in their companies. The other thing is the positive attitude and teamwork. Really showing up every day not—we all have our ups and downs, right? So, I’m not going to say we’re all perfect and show up on cloud nine every day. But being able to kind of put your personal life to the side, focus on the task at hand, and work with others and support one another to ensure that the job is getting done right every time. I’d say the best technicians that come through our program are the ones that can actually speak to it from a practical standpoint—how does this gear turn? How does this piece of equipment work? And be able to articulate that within a conversation with another technician on the floor, your supervisor to diagnose the issue appropriately—and make sure that the fix is done the right way per the aircraft maintenance manual. So those are really the three things that I see that are key indicators of a successful student within our programs ultimately having a good impact within industry.

Bob: Real quick before we close, we’re going to get interest—and so why don’t you, just very quickly, tell us where your campuses are located? Because that very often is a major determining factor. Is it close to where I live, or can I get there easily? Where are you located now or your campuses?

Jeremy: Yeah, so we have four campuses across the country. The one, obviously, Nick and I are housed out of is Broomfield, Colorado. I think Bob, you mentioned it, right, it’s in the Denver metro area—

Bob: Yeah, I did. The Denver area.

Jeremy: —for those that don’t know where Broomfield is. The next one is going to be in our Tulsa, Oklahoma, location, which is actually our initial campus, our first campus that’s—like you said at the beginning of the podcast—we started training the pilots and technicians for World War II. And then our other two campuses are going to be actually in the state of California—Los Angeles area at LAX and then up in Inland Empire, or known as Riverside area—are the four main areas, if you live in any of those areas or even the surrounding cities or states that are around there. We help as much as we possibly can for a student to make this commitment, right? In our Tulsa campus, we do have a housing dorm situation that can be beneficial for those that are looking to move or relocate to the Tulsa, Oklahoma, area. There’s obviously many benefits to living in the Denver metro area and coming to the Broomfield campus, as well as in the California area campuses as well.

Nick: And I’d say just to touch on that—Bob, this is a quick reference for anybody that does have interest—is our website www.spartan.edu [crosstalk]

Bob: Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that. Yeah.

Nick: Feel free to go on there. It gives you very detailed information about each campus location, some of the benefits of living in those areas while you’re attending class with us, and also giving you some more information about the specific programs we offer and where they’re housed at each campus location to ensure that that prospective student is making the right choice from a career opportunity once they get trained.

Jeremy: And I would add to that, too. Yeah, absolutely. Any of you listeners out there, if you’re not sure of what this is, what to do, this is really a no-pressure environment situation. We want our students to come and take a tour of it, see the facilities, stand inside of a turbine engine, see what that’s like, see what it all entails, take a tour of the campus, ask the questions, “Is this for me? Is this not really for me? I can or I can’t see myself doing this.” Just contact any one of those local campuses. Go on the website. Request information. We’ll be able to help and assist in any way we can.

Bob: So, you’re www—

Nick: .spartan.edu.

Bob: Now, I want to talk—I want to send a specific email to one or two of you. Either one of you guys okay with giving out your emails if you got someone else that’s, “Hey, I want to talk to that guy”?

Nick: Sure.

Jeremy: Absolutely. Yeah. I’ll give you my email. So it’s going to be jeremy.cooper@spartan.edu. Just email me and I’ll be glad to help you and assist you in whatever way I can.

Bob: Well, don’t be surprised if they do because [crosstalk]—

Jeremy: I will. I look forward to it, Bob.

Bob: We really enjoyed this conversation with Jeremy Cooper and Nick Brown with Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology. This has been the final episode in our transportation career awareness series on Imagine America Radio. We really want to thank you guys for joining us today. For more information on anything that we do here at Imagine America, our podcast Imagine America Radio, you can go to Imagine America Radio, our website: www.imagine-america.org/podcast.

Lee: Podcast.

Bob: —podcast. We want to thank you for your time. And we hope you all have a great day.

Nick: Hey, thanks, Bob. Thanks, Lee.

Jeremy: Bob, Lee, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk.